In discussions about the Roberts, the one theme I It's not a screamer and it's not a slowpoke. they do not come in around 2.223 inches, they are trimmed back to meet Modern .25-caliber 100-grain hunting bullets are a great choice. 1 single-shot rifle is usually capable of fine accuracy, but it can be hard to achieve. I'd Google up guard screw torque for M77 UL and see what they say. I call this the "baseline" KPS value for deer cartridges and loads. My example is a Federal Premium .243 Winchester load with a 100 grain soft point spitzer bullet. (20 inch barrel), ME 1943 ft. This accuracy situtation with the Bob has me reconsidering doing this. Federals custom-loaded .257 Roberts +P, for example, uses a 110-grain bullet which exits the barrel at 3,000 fps. I cant think of any situation in Ned Roberts of New Hampshire was the other part, and in fact which this could make that much of a difference on a medium-framed Over years of using the Roberts on game from It has the benefit of giving me a standard against which I can evaluate dependable killing ranges of other .30-30 loads, as well as other cartridge/load combinations that might be used for hunting deer and other Class 2 game. The UL version of the ruger. But for most hunters, ballistics arent the only consideration. lbs., MPBR = 275 yards (Zero at 235 yards). Subscriber Services. The Roberts was way ahead of its time and was something of a sensation. It is a very capable cartridge for hunting medium sized Class 2 game when loaded with 115 - 120 grain bullets. The actual range at which the Roberts load falls to a KPS of 15 is 340 yards. The .257 Roberts is a better deer cartridge than the .243 Winchester. (The explanation of these indexes is abbreviated here, but is more fully discussed in the Appendix.). lbs., depending on the load in question. The formula uses downrange impact energy, bullet sectional density and bullet cross-sectional area to calculate the killing power of hunting loads. Posts: 6,857. He explained that his fathers age is catching up with him, and he knows hell soon need a rifle with softer recoil. Remingtons .25 Remington cartridge (1906) was badly outclassed in 1915 by the popular .250 Savage. seem to hear repeatedly is that this classic is too slow. I noted the Effective Killing Range of the load. Everyone likes to try various powders in their loads for testing. Handloading the Roberts unleashes its full potential. It even gave the proprietary .25 Niedner, which eventually became the .25-06 Remington, good reason to sweat. This accuracy situtation with the Bob has me reconsidering doing this. A nearly 6-degree difference in shoulder angle should complicate, if not prevent, chambering and firing commercial ammo in the wildcat chamber. Velocity is important to the extent that it imparts kinetic energy to a bullet of given size and weight. just under 250 yards. Swift bullet. Winchester introduced a +P version with a MAP of 58,000 psi in the mid-1980s. That old gun shot lights out. It remains a popular choice among hunters and shooters alike. The 257 Roberts was one of the first short magnum cartridges and remains a popular choice for varmint and deer hunting. Copyright 2017 by Gary Zinn and/or chuckhawks.com. This was 1346 ft. lbs. of recoil with a 7.5-pound rifle. load falls 25 yards short of its MPBR. Most shooters can accurately shoot a 243 out to about 300 yards. Its a perfect all-around gun, Kiff said. However, due to its own merit and with the introduction of +P ammunition, demand for the .257 began to return during the 1980s, and most rifle manufacturers started offering it as a standard cartridge. They are plenty good for what I need. The resulting MPBR (265 yards) gave me an unambiguous measure of the practical range of the load. A 257 Roberts is a very fast round. Remington cataloged the .25 Roberts in its 1935 price list, but the 1936 price list shows the name changed to .257 Remington-Roberts. The name morphed again somewhere between 1943 and 1945; the 1946 catalog shows the name that stuck: .257 Roberts. .257 Roberts Ballistics How to Buy a .257 Roberts Big-game hunters will have fun choosing their idea of the perfect bullet, or bullets that deliver the type of performance they desire. In spite of greater case capacity, the Niedner was handicapped by a lack of slow-burning propellants until after World War II. In discussions about the Roberts, the one theme I seem to hear repeatedly is that this classic is too slow. The effective killing range numbers for these two loads suggest that they are equal. According to Johnny Falk, in a letter dated in the last quarter of 1980, During the 1980s, Winchester developed a .257 Roberts +P load that featured thicker case walls and was loaded to a maximum average pressure of 50,000 CUP, which bumped the velocity of the 117-grain bullet to 2,780 fps. Interlock RN, MV 2350 f.p.s. Both extruded (left) and spherical (right) powders can provide excellent results in the .257 Roberts. The .257 Roberts is one of those cartridges that has a storied Mikey Hartman, Lt. Col. Smith estimates hes taken 25 deer with the cartridge in his years hunting Texas and South Carolina. I believe this would be a great rifle/cartridge package for hunting deer, pronghorn and similar game. All However, the comparison is not quite that simple. A: In my opinion the .257 Ackley is badly overrated. Bill Ruger's extraordinary No. According to P.O. commercial rifles are available. History [ edit] from Benchmark to IMR-7828. Perhaps if the .257 would have originally been loaded to its full potential, it would have posed notably greater competition for the .243 Winchester. Therefore, my main task here is to sell the proposition that the .257 Roberts is a better Class 2 game cartridge than the .243 Winchester. of the Model 70. Id also suggest carefully cleaning the bore, Ive seen several rifles with copper fouled bores that shot like crap before having the bores cleaned ,shoot far smaller groups once cleaned carefully. Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. The only downside to the 257 Roberts is that it doesnt have the same long-range accuracy as some of the other calibers on this list. I did some estimates of recoil with the heavy hunting loads I have featured. Evaluating the killing power of a hunting bullet must be a more sophisticated exercise than simply comparing the muzzle velocities of different cartridge/load combinations. Understand that the few commercial cartridge brands and loads currently available are loaded to pressures approaching the +P limit and modern rifles can handle those pressures without difficulty. summer woodchucks to bigger game out West, I found this cartridge I said at the outset that the .257 Roberts did not deserve to be shoved into obscurity. With MAP limits pegged at 52,000 CUP, 7000 CUP higher than the Roberts, they threw smaller diameter, lighter weight bullets at higher velocities. Firearms experimenter Ned H. Roberts created what was to become the .257 Roberts commercial cartridge during the mid-1920s. at 2,599 fps. But do you know how to properly use them? Finally, it accomplishes this dual role with mild recoil, even with the heaviest loads. On the other side of the scale, the 6.5mm can target larger animals and has become one of the most popular hunting calibers in the U.S. To make matters worse for the Roberts, the .25-06 Remington runs in the same caliber lane as the .257 but can push a 100-grain bullet about 300 feet-per-second faster. The recently introduced Henry Long Ranger lever action carbine was announced with the initial caliber offerings being .223 Remington, .243 Winchester and .308 Winchester, with more calibers promised in the future. new, unfired brass. Unlike most traditional cup-and-core bullets, the above monolithic designs will usually give their best accuracy when seated between .040 inch to .090 inch off the lands. Advanced reloaders may use a neck sizing die to produce ammunition that is custom "fire-form" fit to their chamber. Mine has been killing Pa. whitetails for 40 years in . If we take the Roberts with a 100-grain bullet at 3,000 Ned Roberts of New Hampshire was the other part, and in fact was the deciding factor of a host cartridge later to bear his name. I read down the energy column of the table until I came to the energy value closest to 1339 ft. lbs. HITS scores at 100 yards for the .257 loads are 718 (Load #1), 773 (Load #2) and 772 (Load #3). . Its a bullet diameter bracketed on either side by wildly more successful bullet diameters, he said on a recent episode of the Vortex podcast. Judging from how the Speer phone lines lit up with Roberts reloading questions, those rifles must have sold well. The sizing As this article is written, our nation is in the midst of COVID-19, political unrest, rioting, etc., all of which has resulted in ammunition shortages. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Now load the same bullet weight in the .25-06 Remington and Mossberg 500 vs 590: Which Shotgun Is Right for You? of Jordan, Montana. The issue is the throating of the round. Then, in 1934, Remington took interest. Newer propellantsand a couple of old onescan safely push varmint-weight bullets to over 3,300 fps from a 24-inch barrel. lbs. The most accurate Roberts I ever had, and sold like a fool, was a Browning Blr. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. The EKR of the load above is at the MPBR range (265 yards), because the KPS value of 15.9 at 265 yards is greater than the baseline KPS of 15 and I never recommend shooting at a game animal beyond the MPBR of the cartridge and load. lbs. (SD is the ratio of a bullet's weight in pounds to the square of its diameter in inches.). ), SD .226, A = .0745 sq. Hunters, in turn, would need to be convinced that the .257 Roberts cartridge delivers performance in the field that surpasses the .243 Winchester, which is already being offered in the Long Ranger rifle. The 257 Roberts is a great choice for hunters who want a versatile, all-around cartridge. If you really get in a For comparison, the .30-06 has a MAP of 60,000 psi. For hunters wanting deep penetration, the Barnes 80- and 100-grain Tipped Triple Shock X-Bullet and Hornady 90-grain GMX are proven choices. I knew several people in the Dallas area who proclaimed the .257 Improved the perfect Texas deer cartridge. can still be had at good prices at gun shows. I experimented with calculating HITS values for other ranges and impact velocities for several cartridge loads, but quickly discovered that the resulting scores followed an erratic pattern and in some cases did not make sense. load detailed above is a very strong one. While neck sizing cases can increase accuracy, since I consider the .257 a hunting cartridge it is preferred to full-length size cases to assure reliable and easy chambering. As a result, I could not find .257 Roberts factory loads anywhere, and neither did my contacts at ammunition companies have any stock on hand. Hornady HITS scores for .257 Roberts and .243 Win. 1-2 shots and done. The 243 Winchester is also relatively inexpensive, making it a great option for budget-minded hunters. This isn't your grandpa's muzzleloading system. The only other significant option for anyone wanting a new rifle chambered for the cartridge is to order a semi-custom Shaw Mark VII bolt action. The .257 Roberts. Thats a tough question to answer. The Roberts experienced a unique transformation in 1974. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. However, for milder cartridges, such as the .30-30 Winchester, there are range limits beyond which the effectiveness of vital area hits become questionable. The commercialized version restored the 20-degree 45-minute shoulder angle of the parent 7mm Mauser case to be the cartridge we know today. There is no definitive answer to this question as it depends on individual preferences. can help. In In Speers lab we saw a velocity increase of from 90 to 150 fps over non-+P pressures using a 115-grain bullet. well in the Roberts. The .257 isnt just loved by industry insiders, either. Magnum primers are not needed Rickie Zellers grew up hunting whitetail in central Pennsylvania, and he recently purchased a .257 Roberts for his aging father. Basically, he necked down the 7x57mm Mauser case to take .257 inch diameter (standard .25 caliber) bullets. Simply put, the .257 Roberts +P is simply the original commercial cartridge loaded to higher pressure (50,000 CUP), which reloaders with strong rifles had been doing all along. While it is still a great dual-purpose cartridge, it has found most favor with deer hunters wanting a pleasant shooting, accurate and reliable cartridge. For comparison, the .30-06 has a MAP of 60,000 psi. The cartridge was designed to be a versatile round that could be used for both hunting and target shooting. ), 100 yard KPS = 23.2 (Energy = 1771 ft. Re: Ruger 77 Ultralight in 257 Roberts Accuracy Issues. : Doubletap 100 gr. Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a Mbius strip. Tht said, I've not seen any that shoot REALLY bad. Recurve62 said: Have one, and yes, I think it's a capable western deer rifle. Buy Lyman Neck Expander M Die for 25-06 Rem & 257 Roberts NEW! New factory rifle options are even more limited. Continue with Recommended Cookies, The .257 Roberts: its Potential as a Deer Cartridge in the Henry Long Ranger Rifle. Still, if you need a dual-purpose cartridge that launches a heavier bullet while retaining good manners, including very manageable recoil and decent barrel life, the .257 Roberts is still a runner in my book. Then, I rearranged the KPS formula to solve for E, with KPS set at the baseline value of 15.0 and (SD x A) = .0112 for the 100 grain .243 bullet. Communication. Loads with 95 and 90 grain bullets have EKRs of 205 and 175 yards, respectively. . (The .243 was offered in the Winchester Model 70 and other fine rifles, while the .244 was offered in the clunky Remington Model 722.) . I have had real good luck and accuracy with both IMR and H 4831. Access the newest seasons of MeatEater, save content, and join in discussions with the Crew and others in the MeatEater community. Select loads reached over 3,400 fps. The .257 Roberts is the Goldilocks of whitetail cartridges. But out there where it counts, there is not that much of a difference in trajectory. A short time later, Winchester chambered the What's the Perfect Trigger Pull Weight for a Hunting Rifle? to use them for hunting. For example, it readily stabilized light-for-caliber varmint bullets that could be pushed to muzzle velocities of 3,500 to 3,700 fps that gave spectacular results on rockchucks, varmints and pests. The .257 Roberts was announced in 1928 as a wildcat based on the 7mm Mauser case. Find the cartridge pleasant to shoot and depending on the rifle very accurate for me. Is catching up with him, and yes, i think it & # x27 ; Google. Choice among hunters and shooters alike the Henry Long Ranger rifle, uses a 110-grain bullet which exits the at... Sectional density and bullet cross-sectional area to calculate the killing power of a difference in trajectory Premium.243 load... 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